So you guys wouldn`t have me over any more, would you?

[Bucho]

Not sure if I would call them elite. Its true that many people drive vast distances for a good fishing spot and bring a lot of movement into the situation. Herring spawn fishing here is a busy mess and there is no way you talk sense into these guys other than a general ban. Usually at this time of year I can hear the horns of the large vessels in my shop when the main waterway is blocked with small boats.

I read the infection rate is going through the roof in the U.S. I´m positive they will find something around summer. Stay save till then!

 

[AtticaFish]

I saw that fishing got shut down in Washington State.... pretty crazy. Kind of worried here also because the walleye river run (Maumee & Sandusky rivers) is in full swing right now and from what i have heard, it is getting crowded. I refuse to fish in those crowds so won't find me there. All it will take is people sending some pictures to the governor and he might make an attempt to change things. I got out and fished in the morning yesterday and caught 2 meals worth of crappie to stock up my freezer. Some people out walking dogs and getting exercise but pretty much had the whole 40 acre city reservoir to myself. Temps are still pretty cool here so more and more people will be getting out as the weather gets warmer.

Bucho - The numbers are going way up, but some of that has to do with our testing process for the virus. Some of our states got testing a month sooner than other places so they are just now testing people they assumed already had it. Now there are shortages of the tests for some places so they are only testing medical workers. The numbers are off the charts right now in New York City so they sure must have plenty of tests to go around. I've told my children (17 and 15) to all but ignore these numbers and statistics. They make it sound horrific when they are ONLY announcing the positive test results and it does not factor in who they are testing. Those numbers will be good for the government but of little use to citizens in my opinion. The rural county i live in listed it's 1st positive this week so i know it is here. Very glad i live in such a rural area.......

 

[Bucho]

I have read about testing results in Iceland where they have a large venture with a high testing capacity and interest in data and a low infection rate. It is the only environment I know of that has gathered random samples which allow judgment on the actual relation of infection, sickness and death. They found that half of the positively tested individiuals showed no symtoms at all, and the other half mostly mild ones. If you test only individuals who come to the clinic because they can´t breathe you will get wildly overestimated letality rates indeed. That was the case in Italy where people infected a lot of elderlies which overwhelmed intensive care facilities and ended up calculating a death rate of 8% or more. Average age of casualties was 79 and a half there until recently. 

Germany is one of the countries with strong testing capacities, but still focuses on patients with symptoms. We calculate 2% chance of intensive care and 0.4% of letality so far, given sufficient intesive care. If however half the country falls sick at a time, that is enough of a mess you don`t want be part of.

It is my understanding that the U.S. rate is still exponential while Germany has managed to straighten the curve - still steep, but manageable. That is what I am concerned about. If you ignore the restrictions like the Italians did who just did not stop having parties and kissing their grandma hello, you will end yourself up in a mess. The virus is highly contagious and wil infect 50- 70% of population in a matter of weeks if ignored. You do the math.

I made the personal decicison to join the tailing end of the curve that, even in worst case, will not be hospitalized before they found a medicin that takes the edge of.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Whats worrisome is that medical practitioners are getting sick for lack of protective gear. Whats really scary are the symptomless peeps among us who are capable of infecting others, and the limits of our treatment facilities. Our hospital which serves a town of 5,000 + a larger outlying area has only 18 beds.

Partisan politics has infiltrated federal administrative response with both sides blaming the other for failures. Wall St. CEO billionaire Mnuchin is in charge of distributing a multi-trillion $ so called bailout.

Hot spot New York City served as a warning for inadequate response, and luckily our state has chosen preemptive closing schools and public facilities, while still permitting access to parks. Pass thru traffic biznesses like banks and professional offices have closed or limited their operations.

 

[toadfrog]

I spent 7 years working in a medical institution hands on with patients that carried or had some of the nastiest stuff around . Sometimes it is not the lack of equipment that gets you . All it takes is one time for you to itch your nose or rub your eye at a moment when you shouldn't . When you get stress (which in medical situations is always ) it is almost impossible to remind yourself not to touch itch scratch or something . I have literally had to grit my teeth until i could get clean and away form a room. By the grace of God I never caught anything and neither did my girls that worked the floor with me.

 

[Bucho]

If you want to get your "herd" immuned without bodies piling up on the street you need to either

- lock down the entire society in order to flatten the curve according to medical capacity (most expensive for society)
and/or
- build up intensive care capacity real fast in order to handle a steeper curve and get it over with (most direct costs for the government but best way for economy as a whole)
or
- lock down only the risk groups to keep them save and let the rest immune each other (not popular among elderly voters who would feel discriminated against).

Is there a consensus for a common strategy or does every State act on its own? Over here, all we hear is the usual Trump bashing, that he fails to build up medical infrastructure etc. Frankly, I would not be surprised if he dodges the bullet of health care spending and leaves unpopular measures up to the States. That being said, I am not familiar at all with U.S. federal budget responsibilities, so I am not judging.

 

[duffy]

Bucho let me define my meaning of elite. (Someone who believes they are above the law and thinks that they know everything and are the most intelligent being on the planet. You should believe everything they say and also obey their commands even though they don't have enough common sense to pour P*ss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.  They also will NEVER admit that they are wrong or at fault.   Also see Libitard.
Our state did tell everyone to distance each other early on but most of us knew that a week earlier. They pretty much had to be given guidelines before action was taken and then it was all their idea. One of our senators went on the news whining and crying about they could't get help from DC and no one was doing anything, while they themselves just wrung their hands wondering what to do. If you can't see or fight your enemy, try to avoid it. New York and California are two alike, squeaky wheel gets the grease. You had to know that things would get bad there (NY) with the congestion of people but their Gov decided he knew better than to shut things down when told to and now he's blaming everyone else and asking/demanding help. (see elite above)

 

[AtticaFish]

There is not a unified effort to combat this so far in the US. Each state is doing their own thing, but that is kind of one of the main stepping stones of what the US Govt. was founded on. The states are somewhat independent but all overseen by the federal govt. From a few media sources, i have heard that Trump did cut some of the CDC funding that could have built up resources to fight this. Other sources say the cuts were gonna come anyway. That is all looking back now though.

Bucho - I agree with all your options on how the country (any country) could get through this. Which way is the right way though? Feels like a no win situation. Kinda funny, i just told my wife today that i need to go lick some door handles at the grocery stores so i can get COVID and get treatment before my area hospitals get over-whelmed. Sorry... dark humor i spose. I have somewhat of a comprised immune system (no spleen) from an auto accident going back almost 20 years now. Some info suggests i have nothing to worry about but other info says that i am highly susceptible to some specific conditions..... pneumonia being one of the big ones. Sorry, off subject, sorta. I like your 2nd option the best. Makes sense to me and would benefit the economy and at least look like everyone was going for the same goal. Right now it feels like my state (Ohio) is somewhat ahead of other states in shutting things down. They have not been able to make everyone follow the rules though. Some factories and businesses are staying open when the state says they should be closed. Retail shops and restaurants are taking the brunt of the losses while construction and some manufacturing is doing OK and some even working overtime. As this goes on, people are avoiding each other acting like they will fall over dead if they come within 6 feet of each other. I just don't know what to think anymore. No clue what my children will take out of this since they are at pretty impressionable ages. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping this will all lift soon enough to allow the small business i have worked at building up for 25 to get back on its feet.

 

[AtticaFish]

Duffy - well, the mayor of one of the town's not far from me that the Sandusky river runs through that is a main fishing spot for the walleye river run just shut down all city parks. There is a big city park along the river that is the main parking area for the run and they announced the gates will be locked from here on out.

 

[Kdog]

It terrible, fortunately Im able to fish pretty much un bothered. Not sure if its my dog growling, me muttering under my breath or the shotgun by my side. Its working and I am left alone. major commodities, TP, Hamburger, hand sanitizer, wipes, bleach, lysol etc are non existant. Stores have senior hours and I qualify.... able to get what we need. People are nuts. the stores all have limits although its beyond me why anyone would buy 3 or 4 of the 36 packs charmin double rolls, they do or try to, meats are worse. I witnessed a woman come in and get 2 3# rolls of hamberger, pay return for 2 more repeated twice more before I was done then as I was leaving she was heading back in. Its her and her husband only. IDC been eating saugeye 2x a day. Started my garden in a cold frame, should have fresh greens this week,

Today I read the recovery bill in its entirety, Its loaded with fat and most of it will never benefit the people that need it the most. Hang in there, ost of the folks I know here hunt fish and garden, Life skills aree a good thing

 

[duffy]

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[Hawnjigs]

"Today I read the recovery bill in its entirety, Its loaded with fat and most of it will never benefit the people that need it the most."

Yup, and expert analysis reveals the bill gives Mnuchin sole authority to arbitrarily extend corporate bailouts beyond the so called 2 trillion $. Sorry, altho I posted that he is a billionaire I just found conflicting sources that state his net worth at "only" 400 million $.

i don't think I'm the only one who thinks that the $1200 guv handout should be redirected to those that need it most due to being laid off and/or otherwise being unable to financially cope with a crashed economy. But I'm with ALL those I talked to that we ain't refusing the $.

It appears to me that the $1200 is a distraction for another massive giveaway to big bizness, like the so called "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" passed in 2017.

What also comes to mind is the GW Bush $600 tax rebate in 2008 to supposedly prevent a recession, and we all know how well that worked.

In todays news Secretary of the Interior Bernhardt just rescinded a Massachusetts native American tribe's reservation status for their Cape Cod land investigators have suspected because their plans to build a casino conflicted with Trump connected establishments in the area.

Again I thank Mr. Hookup for lifting me from complete ignorance to being motivated to research how big biznesses, wealthy individuals, and the government collude to siphon tax $ into their own pockets by his statement that "Wall St. owns us".

 

[Hawnjigs]

"Someone who believes they are above the law and thinks that they know everything and are the most intelligent being on the planet. You should believe everything they say and also obey their commands even though they don't have enough common sense to pour P*ss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel. They also will NEVER admit that they are wrong or at fault."

Brings to mind someone, only thing missing is "constantly lies".

 

[Bucho]

Sounds desperate.

https://www.thenational.ae/world/th...r-canada-and-germany-diverted-to-us-1.1001199

 

[Hawnjigs]

Naw, fake news from libtard never trumper socialist hoax.

 

[Hawnjigs]

"There is no evidence to suggest 3M products have been siezed," 3M said in a statemnt. "3M has no record of any order of respirators from China for the Berlin police."

???

 

[Bucho]

Lufthansa flies them in directly now after Merkel has cut a new deal with the Chinese leadership. The media is using the term "Luftbrücke", air bridge, which was coined for the historic allied western air lift effort that kept west berlin free during the sowjet blockade in `48 which opened cold war semi-hostilities. Heavy stuff.

The mask issue is a big one in all countries. No government held enough strategic reserves, and the blame game is not a Trump invention.  Media kept pointing out that there was no hard scientific evidence that masks would protect from the virus. That is understandable since the virus is new and there has been no research on it whatsoever. Thing is, they didn`t have any, so they communicated uselessness. Now that they need to reboot the economy, they start to communicate usefulness to some extend...

I sometimes miss my old job and the playful ways we had with the truth(s). Always good for dirty laughs on a Thursday night with a couple of cold ones with the colleages. 

 

[Hawnjigs]

Apparently Master Putin's IRA continues to be successful sowing discord and confusion by planting fake news that appeal enuf to segments of our populace that they embrace it and spread it virally to sympathetic others.  Luckily, fact checking agencies exist to debunk the lies, but their voices are often lost in the uproar of millions of repetitions on social media and mainstream news.

I suspect that the supposed uselessness of masks might be one of those troll originated releases.  The cheap ones available to the public apparently are not capable of filtering out tiny viruses, but useful to the extent of protecting others from one's water droplet discharges.

Here in the USA we not only have to deal with Russian lies but those from the highest positions of our government.  Consider yourself lucky to live in Germany.  Or am I wrong?

 

[Hawnjigs]

New poll demographics questioning our presidents effectiveness handling the COVID-19 crisis in the USA:
Fox & other conservative news respondents: 98% great job
CNN, MSNBC liberal news : 3%

I'm guessing Putin gets a chuckle from this kind of news. And hearing about Americans who refuse to wear masks in public.

Bucho, is there a similar division in Germany ?

 

[Bucho]

Nope. Fear of severe sickness is remarkably low. Trust in government is high. General perception is they could not have handled it much better. Field study with random tests revealed overall letality of only 0.37%, almost exclusively severe preconditions and/or average around 80years old. There are travel restrictions and many shops had to close but we can still go out and excercise, fish, go on dates... Most laid of workers remain in the company, get decent "short-time-work-allowance" and have no occasion to spend it anyway.

It sucks to pay nearly 50% in taxes and deductions at average income but with respect to this crisis, the yield is fair. It is widely acknowledged that we are the lucky ones.