kdog, I saw those the other day, they are the extra strong version of what I'm looking for. I;m gonna be making crappie jigs so those are a little stout, I have some in bronze and poured some today, 3/32 collared oval head for hair jigs, we will see how these work out, I'm sure rust will happen with the bronze. we put a minnow on the back and these hooks are sharp and most of them have a decent size barb that will hold a minnow I'm hoping. I have some vmc blk, chrome 9147 jighooks too but the matzuos seem a touch longer and a tad sharper, splittin hairs here. lol kip