What is a "Liberal" ?

[Hawnjigs]

Seriously, I don't know what qualities or issue positions designates one as "Liberal"?

What I consider my conservative foundation is rather simple regarding government, basically that policy should represent the will of the majority determined by proper consensus research in a timely manner. A Republican party obsessed with tax cuts for the rich and cutting or eliminating necesary government services no longer represents my and what I perceive as the majority best interests. Does that qualify me as liberal?

 

[QPassage]

Barack Hussein Obama is a perfect example of a Liberal.  Pushing an agenda, spending more and more on nothing just so his legacy can go down as the worst President ever.  Hillary Clinton is another, example it is illegal to kill someone by law unless of coarse you are a Clinton. OR Standing by your husbands intern just because she gives good what ever.  Heck truth be known she was probably in there with them  Now for the Liberals in hiding, a very good example of that would be Sen. Mitch McConnell, tell your voters you are against Obama then jump in bed with him.   Even a little farther back, a Liberal wannabee would be one of those Bernie follows at a Trump rally tossing eggs for a cause they don't understand or care about.  They are just there to throw eggs.  Basically as I have seen over the years, a true Liberal is Spend spend spend, Tax Tax Tax, Lie Lie Lie, with no need of a check and balance system   A Conservative would be Business Checks and balances, "Only because a Lib will require this"  a Johnny keep your gun,  and allow you to drink your own beer instead of having to share it with at least 10 people.  It's ok to say a prayer in public if you choose to without ridicule. and most of all fixing the crap the Lib's screw up only to have irresponsible voters allowing it to happen again.  
My philosophy on politicians, ALL, both sides, friend or foe.   Washington DC should be moved to the Moon and set up a base there.  Simply because anytime some is at least 3 days away from home they have more time to tinkle while they travel.  The real reason however is so each night we can keep a keen eye on them bastards.  Just for giggles, if I tire of the Moon lit evenings I'll just grab an email cleaning towel and hang it over the window cause we all know that will stop everything.  Just my 2 cents worth of Liberalism.  I could look around some I might find a nickle or even a quarter laying around and offer up some more if needed.
P.S.  Not all Democrat's are Lib's.  JFK in today's world would be considered as a left leaning Conservative. Heck even Peanut was a diamond in the rough in the compared to the is is of love guy in office today.

 

[QPassage]

P.P.S. I do really wish I could run my businesses as the Gubment runs it's show. Heck man I'd be rich and retired tomorrow!

 

[Bucho]

I find the US-American use of the term "liberal" very irritating. In Europe, a liberal person is one that apreciates economical and personal liberty. "liberal" is being cosidered to be the very oposite of left. It stands for self-responsibility and entrepreneurship. The left on their part are the ones that ask for more governmental influence, taxation and regulation.  

Example: The reduction of the SAR naval flying corps here has recently left 2 giant military grade concrete flyboat ramps obsolete, an area with thousands of square yards of concrete runway where one could park an army of trailered boats without even kinking a daisy. When it was opened for public, our left/green local authorities put a roadblock before it, allowing only pedestrians and bycyclists in. Average Joe and his filthy old fuel burning 3,000$ motorboat are not welcome in what can only be described as "libtard-wonderland", to use an amercian term.      

If liberal stands for freedom, I ask myself freedom of what? Does it only refer to the church and certain moral standards? Not taking sides here, only trying to understand. :huh:

 

[QPassage]

I find the US-American use of the term "liberal" very irritating. In Europe, a liberal person is one that apreciates economical and personal liberty. "liberal" is being cosidered to be the very oposite of left. It stands for self-responsibility and entrepreneurship. The left on their part are the ones that ask for more governmental influence, taxation and regulation.  

Example: The reduction of the SAR naval flying corps here has recently left 2 giant military grade concrete flyboat ramps obsolete, an area with thousands of square yards of concrete runway where one could park an army of trailered boats without even kinking a daisy. When it was opened for public, our left/green local authorities put a roadblock before it, allowing only pedestrians and bycyclists in. Average Joe and his filthy old fuel burning 3,000$ motorboat are not welcome in what can only be described as  "libtard-wonderland", to use an amercian term.      

If liberal stands for freedom, I ask myself freedom of what? Does it only refer to the church and certain moral standards? Not taking sides here, only trying to understand. :huh:

You are dead on target!  Liberal freedom in the USA is basically,  we know what is best for everything you need or do.  As the Clinton who is running would imply do as I say not as I do.  Because if you were to do as she, you would be locked up and the key tossed in the sewer.  In my assumption that is a pretty good description of Liberalism in the US.

 

[Bucho]

Again, I´m trying not to take sides. Being the German I am, I couldn´t do without affordable healthcare that sticks with me through old age when I actually need it, and would probably give my best to socialize with those of my neighbours that belonged to the 3 millon muslims I had to share my gun privileges with rather than alienate them with discriminating claims.  

But that I say from a different perspective, with full recognition of other folk´s situation. I mean right now we have a high minimum wage and job security and everything, but when you come across a parking lot in front of the "Deutsche Post", a former state owned corporation that takes pride in paying high wages,  you´ll find a dozen or so freelance contractors sleeping in their vans, all of them imigrants, who do the actual distribution work and struggle to make a (miserable) living.

Guess what: now that we had 1 millon illegal imigrants to welcome, there´s talk about forcing the self empoyed into the broke state owned pension system so the tax financed welfare won´t have to come up for them when they age.

Trust me, I can understand why some of you are not too enthusiastic about social security being forced down one´s throat.

 

[Jig Man]

It is amazing how sometimes the board works and sometime it doesn't...
When answering the questions I line up more liberal than conservative...
But I fer sure believe in less government and more individual freedoms....
And don't need their handouts nor want them...
I worked hard and sacrificed to get where I'm at in life...
And it really pisses me off to watch taxes help support those that really don't need the help...
Really all the government should do is protect our boarders and take care of the ones that can't take care of themselves...
And leave the rest of us the heck alone!
I could be wrong, but it seems to me liberals want more protection and less freedom...
More Socialism and less Capitalism...

Man, that's more than I've said in a long time.

 

[stlatem]

Seriously, I don't know what qualities or issue positions designates one as "Liberal"?

What I consider my conservative foundation is rather simple regarding government, basically that policy should represent the will of the majority determined by proper consensus research in a timely manner. A Republican party obsessed with tax cuts for the rich and cutting or eliminating necesary government services no longer represents my and what I perceive as the majority best interests. Does that qualify me as liberal?

 

[stlatem]

Well said, Jigman.  Check it.  The feds have extorted 2 trillion 200 billion dollars in taxes from first of the year till the end of May. That was an all time record for that time period.  Meanwhile we went  400 billions dollars more in debt.  The current regime thinks laziness is a handicap and rewards it.  And they are proud of how many more are sucking the teats of the federal sow.

Bucho you have 2 million migrants.  Hope none of them have ill will towards your people.  Here in USA we have approximately 15 million illegal immigrants. 
But it's not called that by the current leaders and wannabes, it's called get out the vote, the Democrat vote.

Sooner or later there won't be anyone left to feed that old sow.  And by the way no one in their right mind wants a full system breakdown.  I have more faith I the American people than that.  This country is too great to let one power hungry jerk bring her down.

 

[QPassage]

Well at least one thing is going on for the Liberals.  Consistency!  The GOP and the "Old School" Conservatives are null and void as a parties for my Conservative views.  Honestly I see a future with a new party with strong views coming more in the line of our Founding Father's views. I'm so discussed with my GOP Senator Mitch McConnell and his brown nose policies.    He sided with the left and left America and his party holding the bag.  Not to mention the millions he made as, or because he was a sitting Senator last year.   But he isn't the only one.  What make me madder than anything, especially under the current leader are the no checks and balances.  Heading towards a 24 trillion in debt and they just keep a spending. It's clearly a who's sleeping with who in DC, you are either in or out, under the Clinton regime that would be more in line as in and out, in and out, "I never will get that song out of my head"  all in one movement with repeated results.  As a business owner If I even remotely considered the idea as running it as a Liberal, do as I do, not as I say, I'b be in jail and and flat broke in 30 days.  Clearly as we have already seen how the Hill works, Lies, death, and a good ole stand by her man policies, these will continue on with her in power only at a much fast rate.  The only difference will be Mitch will be gone and Billy Boy will be the one lining his pockets.  
In all honesty the left has miss guided and led this country the last 7 years and only made it worse.  I have said for years, even under the Bush years that running this country as a business with the checks and balances of a business will straighten is out and keep it on track.  Hence my reason for voting for Trump.  I honestly believe 4 or 8 years of Hillary will mean combined USA/Sharia law and another 24 trillion in debt.  The only difference with the dept is  a Clinton lined pockets.  
Then there are the gun control issues.  They in my opinion have every right to try to take them from me, NOT.  But, be warned,  I have seen how hot a gun barrel can get, so hot that they will actually burn your hand when you reach out to take it.  
I think there are bigger and far more important issues at hand in our political country than a left or right,  so much so that after having 7 year of it stuff down your throat and finally after clearing my throat a little and catching my breath.  I kinda feel like a boxer who just got the wind knocked out and is now ready to stand back up and open a big ole can of America Whoop Ass.

 

[stlatem]

Amen.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Thanks guys, so a liberal is basically someone who supports Obama's current and Clinton's expected policies? Can anyone be more specific what policies these are?

Mentioned was excessive taxation, deficit spending, and illegal immigration. Lowering taxes will necessarily increase the deficit unless spending cuts are made. Any suggestions where gov spending could be cut and how much? Here is a Politifact.com spending chart after they researched and corrected an internet chart showing 57% defense spending as inaccurate. What categories would the moochers be in and in what amounts?

Thinking more about what defines my conservative foundation, the following comes to mind:
1. If it ain't broke don't fix it. 
2. Don't spend more than you got.

One of my peeves, and another reason why the Republican party no longer represents my conservative ideology is that Paul Ryan in particular wants to fix(aka reduce benefits) Social Security claiming its broke. According to the Treasury Dept. report which "stlatem" also accesses for data,  "social security and other payroll taxes" income 739 billion $ exceeds benefit outlays of 605 billion $ so far this fiscal year. Plus, according to the latest gov audit the SS fund actually has a reserve of 2.3 TRILLION $.

Since "checks and balances" was mentioned, the Republican super majority Kansas legislature + Governor will probably pass a bill to enable impeaching Kansas Supreme Court justices who decide against passed legislation. This was prompted by the Supreme Court declaring education funding cuts legislation as unconstitutional. Remember I posted about the Kansas teacher who spends $1,000 of her own money to provide supplies for her students? This year, schools had to shut down a week early due to lack of funding.

Some Democrat bashing to balance - President Obama has reneged on his promise to hold Wall St. accountable for the crash of 2008 and pursue prosectution of fraud.  He also supports the TPP which will allow corporations to sue gov for profit losses meaning paid for with our tax $s, and the consensus of economic research experts is that it will enable more USA job losses. You know that NAFTA expedited USA mfg. going south, yes?

 

[QPassage]

Honestly and I say that very cautiously, because I don't believe there is much, if any in Washington right now.  Obamacare has to be the worst taxation bill ever forced down a our throats.  I for one cut from 2 guys in my small business in 2012 to just me because of it and what I feared would come with it.   Don't get me wrong I'm not totally against health care.  But all it has done is create dictatorship within all insurance companies because as we all know who it telling them what they can or can't do.  Have ya had the chance to visit a Hosp. lately and give them some money?  Even with decent Health Care?  I'm convinced and have been for some time that the full scheme of things when it comes to the Liberal agenda is to wipe out America's greatness, blame it on the GOP then turn around and say I told you so.  In short the Same ole Same ole crapola that's been flowing out of the White House for 7 years.   From the forced fed Executive Orders to the having more love for Illegals, than for the country men and women that pays their bills.    There is no appreciation for Americans any more and even more so coming from other countries leadership.  Apologetic vacation trips from our President certainly does not help that issue.  Until the Patriots step up to the plate and tell the fools it will continue on and on.    That is what, I believe a lot of the American's see and have the faith in Mr. Trump to bring back to America, Patriotism.  
My Dad rest his soul always told me.  He would say son, even the most loved person in your life you can not take care of without first taking care of yourself.  There many families of fools in DC have no understand of even what that means. The me, myself and I's in our gubment need to grow a pair and quit this caving to the almighty dollar.  I fear the end result is coming soon and it's not going to be pretty.  I will be one of those that will stand up, I'll offer to show or teach, which ever they so choose to need the most.  
This gubment thing of telling me what is best for me will only work by leadership example.  Therefore they want guns gone?  All guns must go their's included, if it works so good what the heck are they worried about?  They want a Health care that works and is expensive then fine, put the President on the same plan.  The biggest rant for me is Obama has NEVER had a real job.  He has no understanding of a paycheck value and trying to survive to the next, nor does he care.   He like his wannabe follower are mere freeloader on the American people.

 

[Bucho]

Bucho you have 2 million migrants.  Hope none of them have ill will towards your people.  Here in USA we have approximately 15 million illegal immigrants.

Actually, during the recent migration wave starting Summer 2014 to now, 2 million migrants were counted passing German borders, 80% of them claimed not to have any form of personal identification. 1.1 million of them have later registered themselves in Germany in order to obtain housing and welfare. The rest wasn´t heard of again. 

The idea of holding them in camps at the border until they had their paperwork together was soon abolished as discriminating, same as the stigmatizing procedure of taking fingerprints which was instead scheduled several months into the process of apalication for asylum. So if they ran into trouble they just threw away their papers and started over. The paris police station attacker had gathered 20 identities this way.

I´m under the impression that Germans have a rather high reputation in the near east - not always for the right reasons - and that Islamic State leaders have trouble finding young men who hate Germans enough to sacrifice themselves killing them, but our neighbours such as France and UK who were colonial powers in the levant region are not so lucky.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Indeed, the ACA derisively nicknamed "Obamacare" by Republicans to politically personify their obstruction to its implementation is flawed, a desperate attempt to provide healthcare to those who couldn't afford it, within the structural context of the "dictatorship" of health insurance companies. So, hastily created exchanges without adequate administration crashed and for whatever reason some existing providers are declining to accept ACA membership. Private insurers are a huge cash kitty, consider these 2014 CEO base salaries not including additional compensation perks:
Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini: $15 million
Anthem CEO Joseph Swedish: $13.5 million
Cigna CEO David Cordani: $14.5 milion
Humana CEO Bruce Broussard: $10.1 million
UnitedHealth Group CEO Stephen Helmsley: $14.9 million
Republican spokesperson predictions that the ACA would crash our economy as early as the first year of implementation haven't transpired, neither have legislator promises to offer a viable replacement plan. And there won't be any, since current Republican ideology is to cut services to the needy. The biggest failure of the ACA IMO is that altho the #s of uninsured are down from the starting 15.7%, there are still 9.2% of our FELLOW AMERICANS without.

Our best shot at healthcare for all was Bernie Sander's single payer plan, but with Fox News yelling "socialism" along with legislators of both parties dipping the aforesaid cash kitty, it never had a chance. Lest we forget, our legislators have 100% healthcare coverage for life. Curious that nearly all European countries along with Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, Chile,+ more can afford government funded healthcare but our "greatest country on earth" can't? Detractors that claim Mr. Sanders plan was unafordable fail to mention that tax increases to fund might actually be less than premiums already being paid for private insurance.

If ones definition of "American people" excludes others based on ethnicity, religion, political partisanship, affluence, etc. than divided we fall.

 

[Hawnjigs]

Putting private vs. public health coverage adminitstration cost into perspective, according to an SEC filing Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini made 27.9 million $ compensation in 2015. Now, if a decent salary for an administrative clerk position is $50,000, how many of these jobs could be funded by replacing CEO compensation with a gov salary directorship at say $250,000? I come up with 550+ jobs. Do you wonder how much other fat is floating on top?

Addendum: Looked it up, several sources quote an average medical billing clerk salary as $35,000 and the Director of Health & Human Services salary is $152,950. Guess I'm a generous guy.

Y'no, these #s are a revelation to me as I just looked em up & crunched #s for posting this topic, and didn't realize the extent of private enterprise skimming. I really hope this will be a similar wake up for those who believe claims that inefficient wasteful government programs should be privatized. What is the source of your info? Is it an "F" word?

 

[Pup]

To those looking for an alternative to traditional politics in Trump...better hope he doesn't select and receive agreement from Mike Pence as his running mate.

I expect Pence to have a difficult time being re-elected as my state's Governor even if he's not selected as Trump's Presidential Running Mate.

 

[Jig Man]

Liberals believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. Believe the role of the government should be to guarantee that no one is in need. Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems.

Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.

NOTE: The terms “left” and “right” define opposite ends of the political spectrum.  In the United States, liberals are referred to as the left or left-wing and conservatives are referred to as the right or right-wing.  On the U.S. political map, blue represents the Democratic Party (which generally upholds liberal principles) and red represents the Republican party (which generally upholds conservative principles).


:dodgy:

 

[hookup]

Here's a pretty good definition

https://www.studentnewsdaily.com/conservative-vs-liberal-beliefs/

 

[stlatem]

Good stuff there hook up.  If more people did like you did and look at both sides of an issue then decide for themselves. Instead of looking at cnbc, CNN  and other phycho babble.