JUNGLEJIM1
Well-known member
I wouldn't mind sending him a few of my jigs that I've tied recently with the wool and satin to see what he thinks. Maybe he'll put one in the water for testing.
Vertical jigging Master
- Thread starter jiggerjohn
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StumpHunter
Active member
papaperch said:Here are some of my attempts to imitate Red's fish slayer. I also tied some more closely emulating Red's ties. But since we already know what his looks like. Tried some black satin threads also to imitate lateral line but the black does not glow like the white satin. Anyway,,,,,,,,
Awesome jigs!!
StumpHunter
Active member
JUNGLEJIM1 said:
Same with me Jim.. He could give us great feedback about our tyes.:icon14:
papaperch
Active member
I believe one of the swap meisters will one day have a wool jig swap. that ought to be interesting. One thing Jiggerjohn said has really caught my attention. That Red was trying to emulate the emerald shiner. As a live bait in all my years of fishing. Nothing was as effective as an emerald shiner.
A little bit of a history lesson here for our younger fellas. In the 1950's here in Ohio. If you wanted to run a bait shop you had to rely on emerald shiners. They were netted in Lake Erie and transported south by bait dealers. Sometime in the latter 50's the fathead minnow became the staple of baitshops. The fathead was much hardier and the death rate was way better than the emeralds. That translated into greater profits for the retail bait businesses and the emerald soon fell out of favor. Except for the places that had access to a seeming never ending supply right on the shores of Erie.
Trouble is even though the fathead lived longer on the hook and tolerated rougher treatment by users it was never the equal in effectiveness as a bait. I have no explanation for it but I know its true. We all know there is no " secret " bait or lure that lures fish from anywhere in the lake. But I have been the only one catching fish in a crowd of ice fishermen. Only difference I was using emeralds and they were not. Seemed like and still does that finding the fish was the only problem when you had some emeralds. Fish never seem to tun them down. Not so with fatheads and other species of minnows and chubs.
As Red has so aptly figured out that its most important what the jig looks like " wet " and how close it resembles the emerald in water. It is no wonder to me that he has enjoyed so much success with them. Since maintaining a constant supply of the real thing is next to impossible Red came up with a working solution. This is one reason this thread has got me going great guns. Over the years I have witnessed the effectiveness of the emerald. If you are ever in a baitshop on the shores of Lake Erie and the perch are running hot. Watch what every perch angler buys .
When my partner and I ran a baitshop. In the winter we were able to purchase these emeralds and the death rate wasn't too bad due to the cooler water. We bought them for just our own use thru the ice. We never intended on selling them as the cost would have been twice as much as the fatheads. Since a lot of our customers seen us out on the ice. They got tired of watching us catch fish and asked the difference.When informed they did not care about the difference in cost. The production was that dramatically different. Since we were more than 60 miles from lake Erie our supply in the winter was spotty at best. When we couldn't get them for one reason or another some of our customers got mad at us. Usually though they realized we wanted them as bad as they did.
Ice fishing is the ultimate in vertical jigging and I think Reds wool jigs are going to be huge success for me thru the ice as well as open water.
A little bit of a history lesson here for our younger fellas. In the 1950's here in Ohio. If you wanted to run a bait shop you had to rely on emerald shiners. They were netted in Lake Erie and transported south by bait dealers. Sometime in the latter 50's the fathead minnow became the staple of baitshops. The fathead was much hardier and the death rate was way better than the emeralds. That translated into greater profits for the retail bait businesses and the emerald soon fell out of favor. Except for the places that had access to a seeming never ending supply right on the shores of Erie.
Trouble is even though the fathead lived longer on the hook and tolerated rougher treatment by users it was never the equal in effectiveness as a bait. I have no explanation for it but I know its true. We all know there is no " secret " bait or lure that lures fish from anywhere in the lake. But I have been the only one catching fish in a crowd of ice fishermen. Only difference I was using emeralds and they were not. Seemed like and still does that finding the fish was the only problem when you had some emeralds. Fish never seem to tun them down. Not so with fatheads and other species of minnows and chubs.
As Red has so aptly figured out that its most important what the jig looks like " wet " and how close it resembles the emerald in water. It is no wonder to me that he has enjoyed so much success with them. Since maintaining a constant supply of the real thing is next to impossible Red came up with a working solution. This is one reason this thread has got me going great guns. Over the years I have witnessed the effectiveness of the emerald. If you are ever in a baitshop on the shores of Lake Erie and the perch are running hot. Watch what every perch angler buys .
When my partner and I ran a baitshop. In the winter we were able to purchase these emeralds and the death rate wasn't too bad due to the cooler water. We bought them for just our own use thru the ice. We never intended on selling them as the cost would have been twice as much as the fatheads. Since a lot of our customers seen us out on the ice. They got tired of watching us catch fish and asked the difference.When informed they did not care about the difference in cost. The production was that dramatically different. Since we were more than 60 miles from lake Erie our supply in the winter was spotty at best. When we couldn't get them for one reason or another some of our customers got mad at us. Usually though they realized we wanted them as bad as they did.
Ice fishing is the ultimate in vertical jigging and I think Reds wool jigs are going to be huge success for me thru the ice as well as open water.
Fatman
Active member
Great read Perch!!!!!!!!!!
Talked to my sister in law and asked her if she had any satin scraps and she has a whole bag so I'll have that, just have to get the wool now
Talked to my sister in law and asked her if she had any satin scraps and she has a whole bag so I'll have that, just have to get the wool now
jiggerjohn
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Merry Christmas all! I lucked out today (Christmas Eve) in that Red was stayin inside from the snow, and resting up for his extensive knee surgery this coming Friday ; was happy to have some company in tying jigs!! He tells me he's somewhat prepared for Winter tackle shows in that he has 5000 ready to go (at the huge price of a buck each for these absolute gems!!). But it was nice to get first hand critique on me tying his jigs -just subtle corrections here & there,but can make a nice ,visual difference ( Red still says,"put it down there,no matter what it looks like to us, and crappie will take it" -as long as it has that wool body& some satin!). But I did see,in my ties while watching Red that I tend to tie thin & skimpy, especially with the wool -he loves a good ROBUST minnow and uses a hefty chunk of wool to create that "water belly" when wet. In fact,I had him tie one of his larger walleye jigs, figuring it would be,say 5-7" long ; not so, he just packs on more material, especially the extra thickness of wool belly over a no 2 jig hook (still 1/16 oz head). Then he favors a bluish satin (usually with some white as well), as walleyes seem to really go for it.(pictures to come!). He mentioned emphatically that since he started tying the wool as his main body that his catch has gone up 1000 % ("I didn't say 2 or 3 times more" ,booms Red,"I said ONE THOUSAND percent!!!"). He'll usually tie on a stinger hook(single) that extends just beyond the 2-3" tail,and often puts a 6" leader in front that has beads to the hook eye,and a no2-3 colorado spinner (yellow blade) in front of the beads, especially if he's drifting for walleyes.Even though he originally tied one of the very best walleye harnesses ever on Pymatuning(sold by the thousands), he maintains this small jig with a 1" piece of worm tipping will outfish any harness while drift fishing. Speaking of beads, his plain "Fly" is on the thin side & even out of water looks more like a live emerald shiner than a real shiner does, but he's observed the bead tied on front of the hook allows it to bounce right around weeds to make it virtually snagless!! He loves to work these in Spring in shallow weeds under a float, and has often taken coolers of hefty perch, when even live baiters only get a very few! Well, more great tips to come-when ya tie with Red, ya acquire so much valueable info that it overloads the brain! I'll share more as it comes back to me, but can't sit up all night here- Santa won't stop if I'm here typing!! Have some great Holidays guys!
redear
Active member
wow Jiggerjohn! what a robust minnow shap great post! alot of great info here, and thanks to you and red for providing it I was wondering how thick to tie the wool, glad you touched on that.
redear
Active member
I don't know what I did to my last post but it got messed up, anyway what I wanted to say was Great Post!! jiggerjohn and thanks for picking red's brain for us!!
Fatman
Active member
JJ - More great info on this style of tying!!!!!! Any chance you doing a step-by-step showing the proportions that you've learned from Red???
jiggerjohn
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Fatman, For proportions,the biggest lesson from Red was to just put on a decent piece of sheepskin ( the REAL wool -he's tried processed stuff,artificial "wool", other woolie animal types, with none exhibiting the water "balooning" of sheep fur!) to cover the length of the hook, then give it a hard pull or two at the tailend to remove excess,loose hair, and to simultaneousy provide an instant, tapered minnow shape.If ya look at it at and the main body seems skimpy,just tie in more wool before advancing, as this midsection is the jig's main feature. After that, just tie in surrounding flash & satin to suit your own tastes! Perhaps the best bet for the tier is just to buy a batch of Red's jigs and pattern directly from the genuine item !
Fatman
Active member
Thanks for the info
redear
Active member
jiggerjohn, yeah thanks for the info!! I have been looking for a good source of raw wool, and it has proven to not be real easy. I suspect reds wool comes straight from the hide which I am thinking he probably freezes in peices till he needs them. there is some wool on ebay that has been sheared off a live animal, and I am wondering if this would work? to buy a tanned hide with the hair on is at least 70 bucks for a tiny one, sculpin wool is nice, but it has been brushed so much that alot of the body has been combed out of it due to straightening the hairs, I use the butt end of the hair clump cut from the hide for the hook point side of the jig, and the more straighter tips of the hair for the wing, which is on the bottom of the jig when fished. tied a few this evening using more satin, trying to be more like reds jigs.
redear
Active member
If anyone comes up with a source for wool on the hide in white color please let me know. this stuff comes in alot of different lengths and the 2 1/2" length would be about right. it's easy to find sheared off the hide, but don't know how that would work out.
jiggerjohn
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Redear, Red has a local slaughterhouse,I believe, that is happy to GIVE him all he wants. But none of the stuff he has given me is actually attached to a hide, as such. I know Red likes to pre stretch the material by hand ,keeps big tufts of it in ziplock bags,but in general if ya can get it sheared from a real animule, you're good to go! We just pinch a section from a big clump of wool, stretch it a bit and start tyin' !
redear
Active member
ok, that answers my question jiggerjohn! and thanks for that info, as I am looking for some and was just wondering what I should be looking to buy. thanks again!! It is easy to buy this stuff sheared off an animal, and you can buy just the amount you want too. this stuff comes in different lengths from 2-5 inches and washed or unwashed. apparently the unwashed has lanolin in it which is what they call ,In the grease, it also has hay and such imbedded in the wool, but I am guessing all this wouldn't affect us as tiers, and I sure don't think ol RED is worried about the wool being washed etc. I had a few small peices on the hide but must have thrown them out or they are hiding from me. lol it was tan in color and much crimpier and stiffer than my sculpin wool which has been brushed alot.
Hawnjigs
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jiggerjohn
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Redear, I talked with Red this morning, and he does wash the new sheepskin in mild dish soap, then hangs it out to dry. Also cuts it off the skin, like he skins out a deer (when his legs were cooperating & he could get around better, a big buck would take him a mere 5 minutes, using just an old,but sharp, fillet knife that was about the size & length of a small ice pick _ I witnessed this!!). Sometimes dabbles a bit of food coloring on the cleaned wool for tints of greens & reds, but usually likes the translucense of natural off-white wool.For those unable to secure the real stuff, Red will sell ya a goodly clump with any jig order!
Thanks to Keith from Hawnjigs for posting the above photos! The first pic is an overview of 3 of Red's walleye jigs & 2 of my ties(check out his preference for blue satin within these ties). The second displays Red's walleye rigs -note the thick wool body he uses. His first rig shows the spinner he uses on these rigs,the next rig is my preferred in-line Mack's Smile blade. Under his walleye jig in pic 3 is a tie of mine on Hawn's 1/16 "nailhead", which allows a layering up the shaft (3 chunks of wool) as Red had suggested to me to build up body without getting too much wool wadded in one tied position. On the last photo,bottom, is one of my longer,thinner "Red Bools".
Thanks to Keith from Hawnjigs for posting the above photos! The first pic is an overview of 3 of Red's walleye jigs & 2 of my ties(check out his preference for blue satin within these ties). The second displays Red's walleye rigs -note the thick wool body he uses. His first rig shows the spinner he uses on these rigs,the next rig is my preferred in-line Mack's Smile blade. Under his walleye jig in pic 3 is a tie of mine on Hawn's 1/16 "nailhead", which allows a layering up the shaft (3 chunks of wool) as Red had suggested to me to build up body without getting too much wool wadded in one tied position. On the last photo,bottom, is one of my longer,thinner "Red Bools".
redear
Active member
great posts guys!! I appreciate the info!
Fatman
Active member
Great info and a pic of what to shoot for!!!!!!!! Got an email into a business here in Vermont that has sheep and carries shearings that have been washed. Waiting to see if they'll sell to me before they card it and spin it into yarn.
Looked at some hides on Moscow hide and fur last night and WOW!!!!!!! $200 bucks depending on which breed you wanted!!!! Outa my price range
Looked at some hides on Moscow hide and fur last night and WOW!!!!!!! $200 bucks depending on which breed you wanted!!!! Outa my price range
redear
Active member
Doug, I have found some hides for 60-70 bucks on the internet, they are from smallish sheep from new zealand I think, they measure something like 20x36 inches and come in white or creme etc. the brand name of these tanned hides is bowron I think and several outfits carry their pelts. the cheapest ones are called singles which is a single pelt. a double is two pelts sewed together and so on. they go all the way to eight pelts sewed together. people use them for rugs etc. the cheapest place was called Goshopus.com they were 59.00 bucks and you could type in a code of bowron and that would give you another 10% off, almost enough to cover the shipping. the other outfits that I found with these pelts were fursource.com and Glacierwear.com but they were the same product for 10 bucks more.