Painting Lead -free jigs

[cadman]

Does anybody have any experience painting leadfree (bismuth) jigs? Bismuth has a very low melting point. I have tried powder paint and have currently failed. I am still workng on the powder paint and will find a solution. It's that I have to fill orders and don't have time for trial and error. So making jigs and painting them with powder paint is currently not an option. So I have questions for the following?

How does nail polish hold up? I need black and green pumpkin. I guess olive color will have to work instead.
How does lacquer or acrylic hold up. Do you need a base coat. Iwould think not since these are dark colors.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

 

[CrappieHappy]

Ted, I know Russs has recently paint some of Hawn lead free jigs....

 

[toadfrog]

I always use a white base coat . You don't need it on really dark colors black , brown . A good clear coat of Hard as nails polish or a thinned epoxy will keep them in tip top shape until you manage to loose them . That is unless the fish your after have teeth.

 

[CrappieHappy]

Ted, here is Russ' thread, he was able to pp the heads..


http://www.jigcraft.com/jigcraft/showthread.php?tid=3101

 

[LedHed]

I powder painted jigs from Hj at a lower temp and they were fine. You really have to control and pay attention to your heat! I think I was using 310F for 20 min.

 

[cadman]

Hey guys thanks for the links and all the info. I was going to IM Hawn jigs as I do know he pours bismuth. I will have to try again with powder paint as this guy wants 2 colors and I don't want to buy all these bottles of nail polish.

 

[AtticaFish]

Cadman - What kind of problem are you having with the powder? I have painted small size bismuth/tin alloy jigs from Hawnjigs with 2 colors and have not had problems.

Heating them: if using an open flame just watch the head, the raw head will turn from a shiny surface to a dull finish once it gets hot. Using a heat gun at a lower setting might be a better option.

Cure: I have been curing mine (with Pro-Tech powder) at 250° for 25mins which is the recomended time/temp if you are curing with glitter that is not heat resistant.

.......I have tried powder paint and have currently failed......

LedHed - Do you use that time/temp for curing any brand of powder or what brand do you mainly use? Or.... is that just the temp you get the best result? It is in between Pro-Tec's recomended time/temp for both their normal and low temp cure is the reason i am asking.

 

[LedHed]

AF - Mostly cure at 315-317F for 20-30 min. Depends on paint manufacturer and # of colors.

I use a thermocouple reader & wire with the tip placed in the chamber to monitor the temp. Using a toaster oven, I start with a 250F set point and wait until the internal thermostat stops from overshooting the 250F. You can hear the on/off of the thermostat and watch the temperature fluctuation with TC read). I watch the TC reader to make sure the curing process does not exceed 315F in the chamber. Then I slowly start increasing the set point up to ~275, 300, then to the set point. I am trying to keep the heating profile to a flat line – where the cycling of the on off is held to a minimum. Its a lot but it beats saggy heads...

 

[Hawnjigs]

Cadman, what alloy are you using? First of all, pure bismuth 520* melting point. The 20-1 bismuth-tin alloy I suggested to you is my trial and error personal choice and what AtticaFish is currently powder painting. I don't have the tools to measure melting point but lowest working temp estimate is 350*F and might even be in the 400+* range. If you're serious about painting lead free you need to construct your own alloys from pure metals - expensive but not difficult. The higher the bismuth content the greater the cooling expansion and brittleness which = potential for difficult to remove stuck castings. Larger size castings also exacerbate the sticking problem. For this reason I don't recommend pure bismuth 520*F MP for your bass jigs - maybe 10-1 might be an option if 20-1 exhibits problem castings lock even with your mold release spray. Needless to say the Rotometals 281* lead free alloy is not the best PP choice.

 

[cadman]

Attica, I haven't even got to paint yet. I meklted the bismuth just raw. I think my temp was too hot. Soooo I will drop it down and experiment. I am working on this tonight will let you know my outcome.

LedHed, I also have a thermo-couple. At first I didn't think nothing of the fact that bismuth would melt so fast. I will keep trying until I figure this out.

Hawn, yes I am using Rotometals 281 degree bismuth. So now I see why I'm having problems. I am also having issues with some molds, like you mentioned with jig lock-up from expansion as it cools. This happens only on two of the molds I have, even with spray release. So you are saying is s$$tcan the 281 bismuth and buy pure bismuth and mix it with tin to achieve a different alloy hardnrss in this case making the alloy softer so it won't expand as much? Or what are your thoughts. The 281 bismuth works well for non-painted jigs I really like it. But I have to paint these at some point......................Thanks Ted

 

[Hawnjigs]

Cadman, probably better not to PP the 281 and go straight to a paintable alloy. However, your 2 molds that are locking 281 will be even worse with a higher bismuth alloy. What I do with sticky Do-its is very tediously smooth out the cavity faces with Dremel ball cutter bits in a pin vise. Maybe, there's a faster way, but I don't know how. The heavy hook Football mold I just got was really bad - took about 2 hours per cavity. Maybe, your other molds that release 281 might be OK with 20-1 or 10-1, but higher bismuth besides being more expansive is also more brittle so there might be a problem with the sprue breaking off when tapped leaving the jig head still stuck without a handle for removal. In that case I use an awl in the break scar to tap the casting out. But, the sticking problem is mostly fix-able with some effort. If despite your efforts the molds still stick, you can always try tin. Welcome to lead free and good luck.

 

[cadman]

Cadman, probably better not to PP the 281 and go straight to a paintable alloy. However, your 2 molds that are locking 281 will be even worse with a higher bismuth alloy. What I do with sticky Do-its is very tediously smooth out the cavity faces with Dremel ball cutter bits in a pin vise. Maybe, there's a faster way, but I don't know how. The heavy hook Football mold I just got was really bad - took about 2 hours per cavity. Maybe, your other molds that release 281 might be OK with 20-1 or 10-1, but higher bismuth besides being more expansive is also more brittle so there might be a problem with the sprue breaking off when tapped leaving the jig head still stuck without a handle for removal. In that case I use an awl in the break scar to tap the casting out. But, the sticking problem is mostly fix-able with some effort. If despite your efforts the molds still stick, you can always try tin. Welcome to lead free and good luck.

Hawn,
Thank You very much for all the info. I have been thinking to myself , what a P.I.T.A. this lead -free stuff is and if I should still pursue this. Your idea about smooothing out the cavity is right on . I have done that and it helps some. The 281 compound isn't bad to work with, however very brittle, compared to lead. I still have a long way to go on this. Guys from MA are asking me for jigs and if I give them unpainted (without powder) no bigee, however most guys want 5 6 color painted jigs like I do lead and I'm nowhere close to that. You are correct there are a lot of issues where the sprue breaks. If it breaks wrong then you have a divot in the head, which you can not file out too well. Many times when you take the jig out the sprue breaks off and you have no choice on how it cracks off. It is what it is. I have to take my hat off to you as I have some of your lead-free jigs and they are just perfect, so you have the process down and you have a beautiful looking product.

On another note. I powder painted some bismuth yesterday. All in all it is very time consuming. Even with a heat gun, I have to watch not to melt the bismuth. I did one and it deformed, then I did a bigger one and it came out fine. Baked in oven for lower temp and longer time. I just don't get the quality in the paint flow like I do in lead. Reason being is I can't get it hot enought to melt and blend the colors. There will be a lot of trial, error and hair pulling. Sorry, most of my hair is already pulled out. I'm going to try to raise the oven temp a little more for baking and see if I can get this powder paint to blend more.

You mentioned a 10-1 or 20-1 ratio. Is that pure bismuth to tin ratio?

Thanks again for all of your knowledge.

 

[Fatman]

Man Hawn I feel like I'm back in school!!!!!!!!!! But I LIKE THIS CLASS!!!!!!!

Thanks for all the info!!!!!

With all the reserch Component Systems does you'd think they'd come out with a powder for painted lead free stuff that doesn't cause hair pulling!!!!!!!

 

[cadman]

Man Hawn I feel like I'm back in school!!!!!!!!!! But I LIKE THIS CLASS!!!!!!!

Thanks for all the info!!!!!

With all the reserch Component Systems does you'd think they'd come out with a powder for painted lead free stuff that doesn't cause hair pulling!!!!!!!

Doug,
Not many people pour bismuth and not many want to. Like I mentioned it's a P.I.T.A. However I'm determined to overcome all obstacles. I've done it with 5-6 colors powder painting and I can do this with the lead-free jigs I hope. I have a lot to learn and all this B.S. with the EPA and lead ban is ridiculous. However it is what it is. MA passed it and I've talkd to guys in NY and Maine. They are trying to pass it over there as well.

So all you jig guys even if you don't pour, when a petition comes around to stop using lead, sign the petition to keep the ban out of legislation. Because if you don't, we will all be buying raw lead-free jigs at $2.00 each if you are lucky.

 

[Hawnjigs]

10-1 = Bi-Sn = Bismuth-Tin ratios. Maybe, you can start with 10 lbs of bismuth and 1 lb of tin, and if powder painting doesn't work with that alloy, get more bismuth to increase the melting point. With your size bass jigs tho, even 20# of alloy won't go too far.

Re: lead free sprue break pits: every mold requires a different sprue removal technique to avoid those ugly indents. Trial and error alternatives are:
1. Hold sprue with pliers and snap off
2. Drop into a deep metal container onto the sprue with enuf force to break off
3. Wire cutters - front to back or vice versa can make a difference.
So far, using the right method mostly avoids break pitting with at most a 10% need for recasting. But, to have a choice, the sprue has to be intact on the casting after demolding. If cavity smoothing results in only partial release improvement, do it again, and sometimes again.

As mentioned earlier, lead free was a choice for me and I stay out of advocacy or arguments about gov regulation. I would like to note tho that anti-ban activists always exaggerate the cost of lead free alternatives. A check of "lead free jig heads" websites would be a more accurate source of pricing.

 

[cadman]

Hawn,
I see that pure bismuth melts at 520 degrees. With that said, can I pour pure bismuth. I think I know the answer, as I probably can, but expasion from cooling will not release from a mold correct? Henceforth the bismuth tin mix ratio?

 

[Fatman]

Cad

I've been in on the fight with the non lead bans since it first started. The absolute fact is that the data is extremely faulted. Up here it's hard sometimes - if you go into New Hampshire to fish you have to have one box - Mass another and I grew up in New York near Buffalo and lots of folks are fighting it.

And you're right everyone has to work hard at it to protect what we have.

Hawn you are abosolutely correct on the cost of lead free alternatives - When this all first started they quoted that it would only be an additonal $200-$300 a year to switch and listed the materials Waht a JOKE that was.

 

[cadman]

Cad

I've been in on the fight with the non lead bans since it first started. The absolute fact is that the data is extremely faulted. Up here it's hard sometimes - if you go into New Hampshire to fish you have to have one box - Mass another and I grew up in New York near Buffalo and lots of folks are fighting it.

And you're right everyone has to work hard at it to protect what we have.

Hawn you are abosolutely correct on the cost of lead free alternatives - When this all first started they quoted that it would only be an additonal $200-$300 a year to switch and listed the materials Waht a JOKE that was.

Doug,
I think at some point we will all lose the race. It came to IL twice and failed so far. I signerd every piece of document I had to stop the ban. However some one politician is going to make it eventually happen, I sure hope not. Anyway yes bismuth is expensive. I do have guys that will pay, because they have no choice. So a 50 cent raw bass jig now becomes a $1.50 raw jig. It sucks because lead is about $2.00 per pound and bismuth is $20.00+/ pound depending on the week as it fluctuates. Yes for those of us that pour it will make it difficult because pouring this stuff is not like lead at all. There are a lot of days that things just don't go right, and when you figure in the cost of bismuth plus all the wasted time well many of us just aren't going to do this anymore. It is really sad that some day it will come to this.

 

[Fatman]

I hear ya but I sure as hell hope not - I can't imagine not pulling out the pots and making jigs

 

[Hawnjigs]

Cadman, you're correct that pure bismuth while possible requires a smooth release mold to be practical. The function of tin metal added is not only to add toughness to brittle bismuth but also to retard oxidation of easily tarnished bismuth. The primary advantage of bismuth in a lead free casting alloy is weight.

Yes, casting lead free requires some adjustment from casting lead. Personally, I really like the lower lead free working temp and not worrying about toxic lead fumes and dust.