Hopeless leaders and the national debt

[papaperch]

Only in Washington do they make spending more money than they did last year sound like a drastic cut.

The real truth of this lies in perception. Now I have had to run a budget for my household for many years. Also had to run a budget for a business partner and I ran for about 12 years. When you spend less money than you did the prior fiscal year that is a true cut.

The " drastic " cuts the sequestrations are supposed to bring are actually only a slowdown in the rate of spending. They will still spend more than they did last year. Even some members of the liberal press are starting to pick up on this.

If the sequestrations are enacted it is almost equal to a person losing a .25 piece and makes 100K a year. How devastating would that be to the individual ?

Common sense goes right out the window. When they threaten how many firefighters , policemen and teachers will be laid off. I fail to grasp the significance of the Federal budget to these people because the Federal Government does not PAY them. States and Municipalities pay their own teachers and safety people.

Why does our press let them get away with such scare tactics ? I think its time for our press to get out of bed with the government. Quit using harmless names for actual lies. They are not misspeaks they are lies.

Personally I am getting sick of staggering from one manufactured crisis to another every two months. How in the world are we ever going to make a dent in the 17 Trillion debt ?

About sixty years ago this country fought a 2 front war. Against two very strong adversaries. We had other help sure. But our industrial might went a long way in saving the world from fascism.

If it would happen today our economic strength would fail pretty fast. Even if we had enough volunteers to fight. We could not afford the bus ride to get them there. Instead of industrial might we would have to use our " service based economy ". Guess that would mean killing off the enemy with our fast food.

When we as a people wake up and realize what they are feeding us ?

 

[smalljaw]

The cuts won't affect YOU.... I worked over 30 years and had a great bank account, a new Dodge Ram, my wife had a new Chevy Tracker, my retirement was going strong and my home was paid in full and the only thing that happened to me was I got cancer, yep, just cancer and my cadillac insurance plan paid for all my treatments and radiation but it didn't cover the cost of the drugs I needed, and short term disability only paid me $101 dollars a week after they took the $112 out for medical insurance and the taxes and my 401K as it has to be like that because it woks the same as the paycheck. In 2 years I lost my truck, my wifes vehicle was paid for so I'm lucky there, and I wiped out my bank account and my retirement because I couldn't get help until I had no resources left, I didn't know how all this stuff works. Well me and my wife got a loan on the home, it paid for my banruptcy and finally after 5 years of fighting I was approved for disability, yep, 5 years with letters from 5 different doctors that I see on a regular basis and I finally got it. I sold my vinyl album collection and the fishing stuff was next and I'm glad I didn't have to sell that as it is my only form of entertainment and because of the medical issuse I only get to go 4 or 5 times a year. Sequestration will cut my prescription plan and there isn't any way I'm going to be able to put out $780 dollars a month for my medicine and still be able to pay my bills, I'll be in a high rise and waste away but you go ahead and cheer for those cuts because it doesn't affect you... Go ahead and lump me into the catagory of welfare bum or freeloader like you do with all the other individuals you deem the same because of bad luck and God bless you that you don't end up with a disease that guts your finances or you lose your job to a country whose workers get paid healthcare and can work for pennies because share holders consider you a loss of profit. And just so you know, there isn't an insurance that covers the 134 most prescribed cancer drugs, I researched it, the most you can get is a cancer insurance plan that will pay you direct if you get cancer and largest amount payable to us working stiffs is $5800 and that insurance depending on where you live can cost from $40 to $90 a month and that little bit won't help much, I lost 97,000 in 3 years so when you say it can't happen to you, well I didn't think it could happen to me, good luck guy!

 

[AtticaFish]

Why does our press let them get away with such scare tactics ? I think its time for our press to get out of bed with the government. Quit using harmless names for actual lies. They are not misspeaks they are lies.

I always figured it was just the opposite...... the politicians OWN the press. Ok, not out right own it written down on paper, but favors and promises keep the press at their heels begging for scraps. The politicians use the press as their 'trickledown' to get their spending earmarks to make people THINK we really need things we don't. It is a syncopatic relationship that sadly WE pay for.

Oh yeah - i hate the press and anymore only trust the obituiary page

 

[redman]

DISCLAIMER: These are only observations from a old Geezer. I have no ax to grind. Only my opinion to enlighten those that care to inform themselves.


This is a two part comment. First I will address Smalljaw and he may not like it. LIFE AINT FAIR. Take it as it come and move on. To unearth the future you must bury the past. Sift the ashes of the fire a great treasure may be there to be found.

Papaperch my comment to you is that the Lame stream media has lost it's credibility. They are no long journalist but propagandist. We the people know what is going on and don't like it. Look at how many people view CNN and MSNBC. Now compare those numbers to the viewership of FOX news. Air America died Rush Limbaugh is doing very, VERY well. Where Newspapers are starting to have to pare back and have lost readership and the alternative media is being listen to more and more. The question to ask yourself is why. The Truth. People don't like listening to a perpetual lie. Ever have to work with a pathological liar.It gets old very quickly and you just wished that they would shut the HECK up.

We have to start to think less about the "Whats in it for me mentality" to the " For the good of all". We can't have half of our people on the welfare rolls and food stamps. We must have a robust economy with a unemployment at less than 5%. We must have GDP at 5% and we must have a National Budget and live by it like we do in our own homes. We must pay off our debt and become a truly independent nation once again. And at the Same time be ever mindful of the needs of others.

Once again we need to remember that WORK is the noblest of 4 letter words. It giving us self esteem and self respect. It is not some vile and dirty word.

God Bless the U.S.A.

Redman

 

[Hawnjigs]

All of us were born gifted whether it be fixing cars, using technology to advantage, or simply being able to raise a family. Myself, I think, have an awareness to overview and apply simple logic. The preponderance of biased at the source stats seems to me more smokescreen than reliable parameters. And yes, scare tactics are annoying, tho not as much as lies.

So, national debt is insufficient income to cover expenses. To raise income, who is best able to contribute? The poor and disadvantaged who obviously lack the means? The working middle class just struggling to get by? The wealthy who have enuf assets to hide in Swiss and Cayman banks?

To cut expenses, who & where? The fixed incomes of retirees? The health coverage and even FOOD!! for families that can't afford it? The tax credits for busnesses offshoring their production? The subsidies for corporations posting record profits and absurd executive compensation? The tax avoidance loopholes for those wealthy enuf to use them? The continued procurement of obsolete weaponry?

Health "insurance" probably started as a well meaning system of socialized health care, you know, where the many contribute for the benefit of the few in time of need. Now it seems the benefit of the many requires the financial ruin of the few like Smalljaw?

I apologise, didn't intend to blather so much. Until this last pres election, I insulated from larger issues which I cannot affect - no station TV, newspapers, or mags in our house. This dang internet which I connected to strictly as a bizness tool dragged me onto the self-delusion treadmill.

I'm with Redman that conscience requires me being more mindful of the well-being of others.

 

[smalljaw]

DISCLAIMER: These are only observations from a old Geezer. I have no ax to grind. Only my opinion to enlighten those that care to inform themselves.


This is a two part comment. First I will address Smalljaw and he may not like it. LIFE AINT FAIR. Take it as it come and move on. To unearth the future you must bury the past. Sift the ashes of the fire a great treasure may be there to be found.

Papaperch my comment to you is that the Lame stream media has lost it's credibility. They are no long journalist but propagandist. We the people know what is going on and don't like it. Look at how many people view CNN and MSNBC. Now compare those numbers to the viewership of FOX news. Air America died Rush Limbaugh is doing very, VERY well. Where Newspapers are starting to have to pare back and have lost readership and the alternative media is being listen to more and more. The question to ask yourself is why. The Truth. People don't like listening to a perpetual lie. Ever have to work with a pathological liar.It gets old very quickly and you just wished that they would shut the HECK up.

We have to start to think less about the "Whats in it for me mentality" to the " For the good of all". We can't have half of our people on the welfare rolls and food stamps. We must have a robust economy with a unemployment at less than 5%. We must have GDP at 5% and we must have a National Budget and live by it like we do in our own homes. We must pay off our debt and become a truly independent nation once again. And at the Same time be ever mindful of the needs of others.

Once again we need to remember that WORK is the noblest of 4 letter words. It giving us self esteem and self respect. It is not some vile and dirty word.

God Bless the U.S.A.

Redman

I agree with you, life isn't fair, but my problem is I worked hard and played by the rules, I did more work in a week than most people do in 20 years, I made 62,438.89 in 1 year while making $9.70/hr., its not a lie I can show you the social security paper work. My average work day was 18 hours, I got 5 hours inbetween shifts and did this for over a year and a half and it was a major reason my first marriage ended. I agree with a lot of you but my gripe is why do I get cut, Let me see, Ronald Reagan "Borrowed" 700 billion from the social security trust to lower his deficit spending, George H.W. did the same but he only used 380 billion, then slick Willy Clinton does 200 billion his first term and another 150 the second which puts him over 350 billion and then W. comes and he take 400 billion, add it up and if it was all put back there wouldn't be cuts.... Redman, I don't want to do a tit-for -tat with you because I do agree with a lot of what you said but every president from Reagan to Obummer needs to be arrested, their familys and fortunes need to be confiscated and put back in the social security trust. I paid into that over 30 years, life isn't fair, I got cancer but 4% of every pay cheeck went to make sure I had something and now they want to cut it from me? I fought long and hard for this, I lost a lot of money to disease and when I did get welfare, it was all paid back, the first social security check I got also came in the mail with a letter from the inspector general of Pennsylvania telling me I had to pay it back, so I did pay every single cent back and I have the letter of reciept to prove it. My biggest problem is why the government pays 6 figure salries to ba bunch of idiots that couldn't pass a 5th grade history exam.

 

[papaperch]

Smalljaw- I sincerely hope the sequestrations do not affect you in anyway. The sad truth is the administration is carrying on such a blitz media campaign. That we as individuals cannot separate fact from fiction.

I like you worked my entire life and I have had plenty of bad breaks. All of my bad breaks pale in comparison with yours. My bad breaks were of the economical kind. When I was young I got laid off a lot. Then I had to suffer thru a string of plant closings. Four to be exact. Yet somehow I made it to retirement. Not anywhere near rich mind you but I can live. Then I find out I have to pay taxes on some the social security I and my wife draw. Only because I was frugal enough to invest in a 401 k and be fortunate enough to draw a pension.

I do not begrudge paying what taxes I do pay. But the taxes have been already paid during my working years on my social security. So I have to suffer through double taxation.

My problem is that is I read too much. The amount of money wasted by our government is staggering. Not even counting the graft and corruption. Just duplication of jobs and mission amounts to billions if not trillions.

As you well know no business or individual can borrow money with no limit. It is determined on your ability to pay. Every time our government hits a debt ceiling they vote to increase. So why have a debt limit at all ? They are rapidly approaching our ability to pay. Just like Greece , Italy , France in Europe and some of our states are just now figuring that out.

I truly believe that 90 % of the sequestration affects are greatly exaggerated to convince people to call their reps to increase the pressure. Washington D.C. does not like ANY kinds of cuts. Even these supposed drastic cuts are not really cuts. Its just a smaller amount then they had originally planned on spending.

Obama is not a great leader but he is a great politician. The sequestrations were HIS ideas yet as of right now he is blaming the Republicans for it and the press is supporting this. During the Romney- Obama debate. Romney expressed concern for the military if sequestrations were enacted this year. Obama replied that sequestration would not happen on his watch.

Like all his guarantees and promises they turned out to be just so much smoke and mirrors. Gitmo is still open , health insurance is costing more , middle class taxes are going up , etc etc etc.

In summation none of us on here should be arguing or debating with one another over this. All the waste and lies are the governments not ours.

 

[papaperch]

A historical note to all. Paid hospitalization started to become a factor in WWII. Due to the manpower shortage during the war the government enacted measures that limited what companies could pay.

Unable to lure male workers with higher wages. Some companies lured them with, unheard of before, benefits. Paid hospitalization was one of the biggest.

To use me as an example. I never paid one red cent for any kind of medical care. I worked in union shops and all my doctor and hospital bills were covered 100%. My last 5 years of work I had to pay for 10% of the company's actual cost to insure me and family.

 

[smalljaw]

Papaperch, that is what I was talking about and I couldn't find a way to do it, I'm sick of the government spending on crap and taking it out on the working class and I feel for you, I know how the taxes eat you up and while I don't think the wealthy should have to pay more than their share I do think corporations that go overseas for cheap labor should have to pay a F.A.I.R. tax, my plan which is Foreign Aquired Income Reform. We can set the tax rate at zero for corporations and they won't come back here because they are paying wages that average 3 dollars a day they would be crazy to give that up but that is where this healthcare debate kicks in. We have to buy ours with our own money, not a problem but if that is the case then why in the world do we allow free trade with countries that have government paid healthcare. And before someone says it, I'm not advocating for socialized medicine, I'm saying if we don't have it, then corporation should not be allowed to leverage American workers again those that don't have to take money out of pocket for healthcare because it is impossible to compete with that. I'm hating the fact of disability, I'm in constant pain and I can't just buy tackle, I have to wait months and that was after 5 years of fighting but the average cost of health insurance is 6 dollars and hour right off the top, 4 dollars for premiums and 2 dollars and hour for deductables. They are making us afraid of sequestration which is wrong and the goverment needs spending cuts but why cut something I paid into, I'm not getting a handout, I paid for this, have our past presidents pay back what they took and there shouldn't any custs to medicare. I know I'm all over the board but these politicians have me mad, I got that letter saying my prescription coverage may be cut of the primums may be raised, great but the politicians still get a pension, they still get medical and they still get 6 figure salries and it never gets cut...

 

[Shoemoo]

Air America died Rush Limbaugh is doing very, VERY well. Where Newspapers are starting to have to pare back and have lost readership and the alternative media is being listen to more and more. The question to ask yourself is why. The Truth. People don't like listening to a perpetual lie. Ever have to work with a pathological liar.It gets old very quickly and you just wished that they would shut the HECK up.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you're not seriously trying to say Rush Limbaugh has an audience because he speaks the truth, are you? Rush lies through his teeth all the time, and I'm not talking about differences of opinion. I'm talking about distortions of actual fact. He also slanders people and puts false words into their mouths. He's a liar, a hypocrite and all around generally terrible human being.

 

[redman]

Small jaw very sorry for what has happened to you The sad part is there is nothing that I can do but give you a shoulder to cry on. The bad part about the social security trust fund is that every congress from President Eisenhower to Obama has use it to HELP the country. Ever drive on a Interstate Highway That was some of our SS money. How about the space program more SS money , Johnson's WAR ON POVERTY as far as I know we lost that one with all our SS MONEY then he turned around and decided to fight a war that cost us billions of dollars and over 50,000 lives of our youngest and brightest. I shall not go on as it hurts me to much to continue. The sad part is we are all in the same boat. The people on the rudder are not doing a good job at steering the boat. We are heading toward the falls and they know it and are too stubborn to do any thing about it.

You my friend are like almost everyone else that I know. You worked hard, paid your bills, and drew a bad hand in having to deal with a very serious disease. There are many like you My heart goes out to you. Each of us faces our own challenges. I for one am glad that you had the help to defeat the BIG C. My father wasn't as lucky.

We are all brothers on this site and as such we all have different ideas,dreams, hopes, we may discuss and may even argue at times. That's what brothers do. In the end we have to have compassion for our brothers, care for them the best we can and at the same time promote peace and harmony.

Now this old man will climb down slowly off his soap box so I don't hurt myself and bid you a Good Day.

Redman

 

[redman]

Yes Shoemoo you are reading it wrong. I was trying to say that the lies of the lame stream media is getting harder to take. Do you think that the pentagon are going to lay off 800,000 people? Do you think that as the president said the firefighters and EMT and the police will be laid off? The National Government doesn't pay them. That is a job of the state and local Government. That is not a fib it is a LIE. People are very tired of these lies. Rush is part of the alternative media as is Alex Jones,Mark Levin,and Michael Savage.

As far as Rush, he Tells more of the truth than the New York Times, MSNBC and CNN. I have listen to him 5 days a week for 20 years. I have never know him to distort the truth. There is only one person that I know of that he slandered and he apologized for that. As far as him being a terrible human being I don't know him personally so I will not and cannot judge him!!! Remember he is a political entertainer. He is the Will Rodgers of our day.

Redman

 

[Shoemoo]

Yes Shoemoo you are reading it wrong. I was trying to say that the lies of the lame stream media is getting harder to take. Do you think that the pentagon are going to lay off 800,000 people? Do you think that as the president said the firefighters and EMT and the police will be laid off? The National Government doesn't pay them. That is a job of the state and local Government. That is not a fib it is a LIE. People are very tired of these lies. Rush is part of the alternative media as is Alex Jones,Mark Levin,and Michael Savage.

As far as Rush, he Tells more of the truth than the New York Times, MSNBC and CNN. I have listen to him 5 days a week for 20 years. I have never know him to distort the truth. There is only one person that I know of that he slandered and he apologized for that. As far as him being a terrible human being I don't know him personally so I will not and cannot judge him!!! Remember he is a political entertainer. He is the Will Rodgers of our day.

Redman

Who told you ALL the money for firefighters, EMS and police in every jurisdiction comes from the local and state governments? FEMA gives grants to firefighters and EMS responders, and the Department of Justice gives grants to local police departments, particularly in areas that don't have a high enough tax base to buy equipment and hire and train staff. If the money for grants gets cut, the local and state governments will have to come up with the money by raising taxes or cutting other services or do without. I'm not saying EMS or police layoffs would happen, just that saying it's not necessarily a lie because in some areas they do get money from the feds.

http://www.fema.gov/assistance-firefighters-grant-program-info
http://www.justice.gov/business/

In regards to Rush, he has a bad habit of taking one little soundbite or kernel of truth, not fact checking it and making things up on the spot to cast his chosen targets in the worst possible light. When he's wrong he doesn't bother to apologize or correct his statements unless they're so egregious lots of people outside his circle of listeners take notice and complain to his sponsors. Then he says "Hey, I'm just an entertainer! I'm sorry you were offended by what I said!" Let's have a look at some of those things he's said, shall we?

How about when he told his listeners Obama was sending troops to Africa to kill Christians, when in reality it was to stop an outlaw running a terrorist band known for killing, raping and child slavery?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electi...-Joseph-Kony-and-Lord-s-Resistance-Army-video

Or when he claimed Egypt passed a law allowing necrophilia?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/04/30/right-wing-media-stoke-islamophobia-with-dubiou/184237

Or when he said America had more forests today (1990s) than it did in 1788 and there is no proof nicotine is addictive? (There's a ton of his lies and distortions with rebuttals in this link.)

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/The-Way-Things-Arent/

Or where he issued a halfhearted insincere nonpology to Sandra Fluke for calling her a prostitute and worse over three days, only after his sponsors started dropping him like a hot potato? He never apologized for lying about what she said, and he managed to misrepresent what she said again in his apology statement. Even FOX called him out on that one.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03/05/limbaugh-receives-criticism-over-his-so-called/184608

Or how about one from just last month, where he insinuated the left and gay marriage advocates were paving the way to normalizing pedophilia?

http://www.ibtimes.com/rush-limbaughs-bogus-logic-gay-marriage-paves-way-pedophilia-1004542

He lies, spreads misinformation and distorts the facts all the time, but his followers take what he says as truth because it agrees with their preconceptions. Telling people what they want to hear and calling it the truth is not the same thing as actually telling the truth.

You don't need to know someone personally to know they're a lying weasel from their own words.

 

[redman]

Stacy come on Girl Relax. He must really get under your skin. Lols. You didn't even read the last line of my post. You are just angry as my wife is when he get on the radio. RUSH is a ENTERTAINER he is the Jon Stewart of the RIGHT.

Here is a quote from a famous entertainer see if you can find out who he is. "People who fly into a rage always make a bad landing."

I am not going to go tit for tat on you with the lies that the MSM has told. For I could crash the server in minutes. Starting with the the Social Security trust fund and moving on to Benghazi. Lets face it journalism is dead which is the jest of this thread.

Redman

 

[AtticaFish]

You are very correct....... they hire these people for the entertainment value so they get more people to watch and buy the things available on the each commercial break - and if you call in the next 10 minutes, you get one FREE by just paying the additional shipping and handling..... even though the product costs 1/3rd of what the shipping does.

Entertainment and news does not mix well in my book - unless you want to find out who slept with who in Hollywood.

 

[smalljaw]

RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is all entertainment and every single one of them lie to whip up the emotions of the people that listen and more importantly, the ones that don't listen. If Shoeemoo never heard of Rush Limbaugh or never heard a thing he said then Rush wouldn't be doing a good job even though he had Redman as an audience. Ever hear of Rachel Maddow? I'm sure Redman has and he more than likely never watched her and it is those that don't watch, those are the ones that a lot of comments are made for that way the entertainers go from having an audience to having a national audience as a few sharp words and some minor inconsistancies will drive every watchdog group on the planet listening and therefore, more audience members than if he spoke clear and concise fact. My issue was with the let sequestration happen but it turns out I'm on the same page as Papaperch, I just took it out of context. The only difference is my health is being played with as I now am forced to depend on this and how I wish it would change but when you fight for 5 years with a slew of doctors in your corner and the jdge says, that he doesn't believe the word of 5 different doctors and after calls to political leaders and lawyers I finally got what I paid into only to get 3 checks, no retroactive pay yet and I'm already getting letters from my new prescription coverage that I may lose my coverage or pay a lot more for it because of the idiots on both sides. I'm an independent, I hate them both, they tell us a government healthcare package won't work, great, I'm not in total favor of it anyway but the same people who say it won't work then turn around and sign free trade with countrise that do have government paid healthcare and tell us we need to compete to make the free market work......That is the straw that breaks my back, free trade with communist countries and leveraging amaerican works against those who work for $1.61 a month, you can't live on that here without government help. I believe every large corporation who has more than 100 workers and makes more than 2 million a year in pure profit from overseass labor should be given a choice of making things here or paying a 10% tax on gross revenue and all that money can go and subsudize low income workers by paying for the snap program as well as job training and then the government can use tax dollars to pay down the deficit. It will work because if the corps. don't pay then it will result in jobs here and if they don't come back and instead pay the tax, well we don't need to use the general fund for social programs, it is a win win!!!

 

[JSC]

I am reading this ... No big comment .. x cept I am a very right wing Conservative.

The only thing I want to bring out here is the "FairTax" bill ... It will really cure a lot of our problems .. but ... The chance of it ever passing is really small but I will back it til the end ... If you really want to know something about it Please go to "FairTax" web site and study it ... do not take the word of those who oppose it ... The "Seed" for this type taxation was planted in my mind by a customer one day and I have studied over it for close to 50 years ... now Millions of dollars on research have been done and a good bill has been drawn up .... With the present "Troop" of polticians in power I doubt it even be considered as it takes so much power away from the Poloticians ...
I will get off of "Soap Box" (can't belive I did not say more than I did cause there is a lot more to this thread)
CARRY ON ......

 

[ragged edge]

If Obama says everyone should pay their share why don't the politicians contribute their paychecks? Oh yea, Pelosi was above that! Rand Paul contributed some money and Linsey Graham is in agreement. Imo any politician should not hold office for more than eight years period! Bring in new blood and try to work the problems of our country out with new ideas. As for health care, don't you think they should pay for their own insurance like everyone else? Retirement for them? Why?

Rant over!

One of few conservatives in ths state............

 

[Hawnjigs]

Wow, glad I don't watch or listen to any mass media, else I'd pick a side and get PO'd and frustrated - enuf worries without adding yoyo "journalist" voices.

IMO politicians, journalists, and used car salesmen most marketable asset is their mouth.

Problem is, many I think, like my pop-in-law, regard the entertainment as Gospel truth from a higher source. I'm sure both Redman and Shoemoo are correct in their assessment of media lies, but I'm not getting in either boat to find out. Else I'd end up like O'l Harry whom you have to be very careful not to trigger an earful of angry Obama rant.

As mentioned, my talent, or self delusion, is that I can observe a wide angle view and somewhat impartially input data and connections into a simpler core. At the very base is our built in survival instinct, which allows greed, which is expressed thru hoarding, which requires controlling & exploiting others where supply is limited. Politicians are just visible tools, real power in our capitalist system is now corporate, for lack of a better word.

So, lets say your wife gets cancer from drinking RBGH milk. Can you get get revenge by blowing away the CEO of Monsanto? Maybe in your mind, but a corporation is NOT!! a person - they are an entity of parts, self repairing, and continue to exist no matter how many bullets you're packing. It often has no concept of right and wrong, only profit maximization.

Those of you not familiar with "RBGH" might be interested in the incident where Fox News fired two established investigative reporters who insited that the public should be warned. Google it.

And, this is just a straw in the haystack of profiteering entities that will do anything for $. Those filling their pockets are laughing at conservative-liberal bickering distracting from the real truth.

 

[redman]

Keith,Keith ,Keith you forgot one important group of people and take the used car salesmen out of there they are more honest than the politicians. You forgot the Trial Lawyers. They are one of the most Blood sucking people on the face of the earth. May be we need to tie a jig that look like them I am sure that they would take a bunch of fish just like leeches.

Redman

P.S. if we don't get rid of RBGH and GMO we will all end up like Smalljaw and some of us WILL die from Cancer.