hi from massachusetts

hamma

hamma

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
4
Location
bostons so shore
my name is Keith and id like to say hi to you all and compliment the many talented tyer's here,...i scanned some of the pics in the forums and i must say im quite impressed,..... i have never been taught how to tie,.it just started when my spinnerbaits and jig skirts kept slipping down the hook shank when i applied scents,...so i bought a cheap vise and tied them on,...it has progressed to tying crappie jigs for friends and such,...now i am contemplating producing non lead jigheads as my state has banned lead.,.,.. researching this venture lead me to this site,. and i hope it helps. i will try not to be a "pest" for i have many questions that i think you all have the answers to,....
 
K

Kdog

Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,808
Location
SW Ohio
Welcome from SW Ohio! We have several folks with lots of experience in the lead alternatives that are helpful. From my experience TIN works but is tricky during the coating process. Gives a nice shiny head alibet larger than normal and lot less weight. Other issue is the cost, but if your market can justify it, have fun.
 
hamma

hamma

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
4
Location
bostons so shore
thank you for your time kdog!
I have researched tin and have come to find a bismuth/tin alloy designed for this application,...but the issue is that this alloy's melting point is only 281f,.... but powder coat suggests 350 at 15 minutes to cure. Is there a way to skirt this? like maybe lowering the temp at a longer time in the oven?,...or is it possible to add more tin to bring up the melting point? ,...or should i scrap the powder coat all together and go with a vinyl paint?Im sure others have come to this crossroad,..... I have never casted anything so im a total rookie at this. i will read posts in the forums to get tips and tricks, and ask the questions that need be in good time

Again ty for your response and as i read it i see that you stated others here may have the answers
 
AtticaFish

AtticaFish

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
5,445
Location
Attica, OH
Welcome from NW Ohio!

As for your questions on casting non-lead jig heads, there is a guy here who specializes in it so he may be able to help with questions. I have powder painted quite a bit of lead free stuff and some alloy mixes work better than others. Tin is by far the easiest to paint, have never had any issues. It may be cost prohibitive though. The tin/bismuth mix is possible to powder paint, but have to be very careful about the max temp you get to even when you dip in the paint. If you get the head too hot just heating it for the paint..... it starts to grow little bumps that look like pimples!

Not sure on the exact percentage mix (i paint them, do not actually cast them) but have gotten some mixed alloy heads from Hawnjigs that i have no issue with the cure up to 350°.
 
H

Hawnjigs

KISS
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
4,248
Location
Ogallala, NE
Hamma, I've posted quite a bit of lead free info on JC, which you might want to search for details I might miss in this reply.

Tin: Melting point 450*F 63% lead weight. Clear candy powder paint lets the reflective shine thru nicely.
Bismuth: MP 520*F 85% lead weight. Brittle so best alloyed with tin for bonding strength.
BiSn alloy: Thru trial & error I settled on Bi95 Sn5 which is 95% bismuth + 5% tin as my paintable alloy. AtticaFish does outstanding powder paint jobs with it.

A curious property of BiSn alloys is that a portion will start to premelt at a lower temp than the entire mass, so 95-5 for example will start to form melt blisters at around 360* even tho that alloy won't completely liquify until well over 400* - I've never actually measured. More tin content will lower the premelt temp even more with 37% the lowest temp at 281*. I haven't, but lowering the tin content below 5% would probably increase the premelt temp for EZer powder painting. The tradeoff for reducing tin content will be increasing brittleness.
 
hamma

hamma

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
4
Location
bostons so shore
Hawnjigs said:
Hamma, I've posted quite a bit of lead free info on JC, which you might want to search for details I might miss in this reply.

Tin: Melting point 450*F 63% lead weight. Clear candy powder paint lets the reflective shine thru nicely.
Bismuth: MP 520*F 85% lead weight. Brittle so best alloyed with tin for bonding strength.
BiSn alloy: Thru trial & error I settled on Bi95 Sn5 which is 95% bismuth + 5% tin as my paintable alloy. AtticaFish does outstanding powder paint jobs with it.

A curious property of BiSn alloys is that a portion will start to premelt at a lower temp than the entire mass, so 95-5 for example will start to form melt blisters at around 360* even tho that alloy won't completely liquify until well over 400* - I've never actually measured. More tin content will lower the premelt temp even more with 37% the lowest temp at 281*. I haven't, but lowering the tin content below 5% would probably increase the premelt temp for EZer powder painting. The tradeoff for reducing tin content will be increasing brittleness.
Click to expand...

thank you for your response,...i apprieciate the info
I have a few questions (if you dont mind)
will a regular pot melt the 95/5 alloy?
should i cast lead first to get familiar with casting?
do you modify your molds to acheive "proper" weights? or just take what you get?
how does one cross reference standard hooks to sickle?
and,
I am interested in casting round, darter, football and weedguarded bass jigs,.....if i decide not to cast do you sell your jigs?
 
H

Hawnjigs

KISS
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
4,248
Location
Ogallala, NE
Hamma, Bi95 Sn5 will actually be pourable at a much lower temp than lead, tho again, I've never measured. Production molds like Do-its are designed for LEAD pouring, and since bismuth & its alloys expand when cooling some molds may lock castings in cavities. You won't know until you pour, and remedying that ain't EZ.

I'm only capable of doing minor mold mods to fit non-stock hooks, so no, I don't enlarge jig head cavities.

Repeating, a high bismuth alloy is brittle, so thin castings like spike collar barbs are fragile.

If you're unable to acquire a powder paintable BiSn alloy, PM me if you'd like some to get started.

You can find links to a member bizness by clicking names.
 
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