Under vs. Over Spins?

[AtticaFish]

Would like to here some oppinions on what type of spinners you prefer... and why. :huh:

I fish alot of spinnerbaits for both crappie and SMB/LMB, usually the bass spinnerbait style but in the smaller crappie sizes. Have been seeing alot of new ones people are tying, but i have mostly used these with plastic trailers, have to tie a few and see how they do. I do use the clip-on spinners (bettle spin style) and idaho clip spinners on tied jigs pretty often and know they work, so assume (and have seen) the hard wired ones should do just fine.

I am not a fan of the under spin type (ponyheads, RR's) lures at all... mostly from the way they fish. I have tied a few RR's and it seems when they are reeled in, they point nose down and hook up at a 45* angle. They are even worse when fished in current and i get alot of strikes and no fish, the hook does not run out the back where it should be. :-/ Does it help any using a willow blade instead of the regular round blades? I'm just not sold on these and can't even remember EVER catching a fish on one... they are so popular, just not sure what i'm doing wrong?

 

[jiggerjohn]

I ,too, do not favor EITHER under or over spinners on my jigs =too much wire in the way for finesse presentations! Plus the balance is always off &delicate lift/drop tactics are lost. HOWEVER, thanks to Hawn jigs light (due to no lead composition) jigheads and thin wire hooks (currently I'm undecided if his # 8 sickles or #8 VMCs are best) ,for the past 2 seasons I've been using a spinner DIRECTLY ON the shaft of Keith's 1/24 oz jigheads. That is, I get bulk packages from Cabelas of their #1 (tiniest) propeller blades,and a small brass "cone" directly behind as a bearing. Behind I tie on a very thin 3/4" strip of rabbit and 4 strands of gold flashabou. The blade spins on a straight retreive , while diving straight down, coming straight up, and all angles in between in perfect jig balance and with the flash & rabbit quite aggitated from the generated "current"! This has outcaught every jig I've tied or seen, catching me trout everywhere,bass, bluegills, crappies, etc.. Just last weekend (was up your was,Attica, but no time to call-my son's 31st birthday & they kept me running the whole time,tho did get to hit piers before Rob & momma got up in the early morning!) I cast off the rocks at Lake Erie and got 8 differant species(woulda been 9 ,if I'd allowed the chasing watersnake to latch on!) on this small jig -leaping smallmouth, hefty sheepshead, and several carp that went over 20# (fun,but half hour fights on 4# test mono!).

 

[Hawnjigs]

Aargh! JJ2, you gave up our secret lure! But, since you invented it, guess you're entitled.

Well, I'll confirm that this lure is all that, your prop jigs turned my last year tuff bite Sept. mainland trip from mediocre to epic!

 

[AtticaFish]

That is some very good information and input did you happen to post a pic of this jig on here once already if not could you be so kind.

X2 !!!!! Oh yes, i would like to see as well, secrets are made to be broken ya know. Send me a pic through email - [email protected] - if you would rather do it that way and i can size it and post.

Dang water snakes.... endangered species... BAAHHH!!!!!

 

[CK3]

I prefer the spinner on the back of the hook as in Charlie Brewer slider
method. I've caught tons of fish using this and very few hangups.
I'm not a big fan of road runners although I do make up quite a few.
I agree if they don't slam it it's a sloppy hook up at the wrong angle.
I do use crawler rigs and spinnerbaits and buzzbaits quite often and have no problems with them, especially the crawler rigs. The buzzers, the bass usually slam em hard so no problem there. Only emotional ones watching the fish come out of the water with my buzzer hanging out of his mouth!!!!!Yaahoo!!!

 

[LedHed]

Still out to lunch on this one – been using the belly spinner and doing well. Got this 17” green carp (5/27/10) on a 1/16th chub belly spinner and 2lb test. Farmmed a bigger one - bad knot.....

View attachment 8

Started fishing these things last fall for the panfish and they seem to really work. Don't have a lot of experiences with the safety pin type spinners.

 

[jiggerjohn]

I prefer the spinner on the back of the hook as in Charlie Brewer slider
method. I've caught tons of fish using this and very few hangups.
I'm not a big fan of road runners although I do make up quite a few.
I agree if they don't slam it it's a sloppy hook up at the wrong angle.
I do use crawler rigs and spinnerbaits and buzzbaits quite often and have no problems with them, especially the crawler rigs. The buzzers, the bass usually slam em hard so no problem there. Only emotional ones watching the fish come out of the water with my buzzer hanging out of his mouth!!!!!Yaahoo!!!

CK3 , Yep, the tail spins are also great & yield good jig balance without unnecessary hardware! Charlie Brewer was a friend of mine,we both wrote for Fishing Facts together, and I did real well on his original "whirley bee" tailspinner jig. My fly tying friend, Steve, also influenced my prop-blade "Boolie" jig idea with a tail spin on his flies, but used the tiny propeller as can be seen on his tying directions - http://bouncerflies.com/tubesprops.html . Steve has used his prop "Bouncers" for everything, including big barracuda in the salt & South American fish that I can't identify !

 

[jiggerjohn]

Here's a few things that may be of help ,for those who try a light "in line" or tail spin jig based on recent experiences with the 1/24 oz Boolie jig, which I passed on to Hawnjigs in our ongoing experiments with this productive little bait : Now here's some things I think I think about the Boolie after this trip: 1. best retreive is to let sink, then 3 cranks and let drop&repeat 2. it works the entire water column from top to bottom 3. it's the only spinner that works during the entire retreive,even in contact with cover 4. hook size #8 keeps ya snagfree-don't go with hook guards ever,just use smaller hooks! 5.4# mono works best for the 1/24 oz boolie-especially in winds or waves 6. Don't up size to even 1/20 oz if ya can possibly help it! 7. Carp, sheeps, cats, smallies will take sometimes at top -so be ready from the second a bool touches down! 8.Tipping in corn is great ,but even just soaking in the juice works wonders during tuff bites! 9.I watched a carp that didn't see the boolie turn after it when I dropped it -the noise is readily detected! 10.A sharp right thumbnail is essential to remove spinner moss in a hurry! 11.Walk & cast a pier by casting at a 45* angle -better coverage ove potential key structures& depths 12. If ya think ya had a hit, you did! 13. Any time the line slackens(as in bottoming out),lift quickly -it's often a fish! 14.For big fish, use the "break off" release -and carry 100 Boolies!! 15. Take 2 UL rods ,one with 4 # mono, the other very light braid - both with boolies tied on! 16. For best action tie the kreh loop knot 17. the one inch purple leech (very thin width) is a total killer 18. the shorter purple & orange "moi style" ain't bad either -just make sure the flashabou is flicking behind! 19. A "cone" makes the best spinner bearing on tiny jigs 20. for a bigger jig,don't up the weight, just use longer,thinner,trimmed bunny strips! 21. Other stuff I can't remember!

 

[LedHed]

jiggerjohn
Excellent web site - lots of tips/ideas - had to bookmark that one.

Thnx for the "in line" or tail spin jig tips.

 

[crappiecripplerjigs]

I prefer the belly spins or RR's when S. L. O. O. W. W. movemant is needed. Fast retrieve and those rascals do not track well. I have used the clip on beetle spin type spinners on jigs and caught lots of LMB/SMB and very few crappie. Also becoming a fan of the rooster tail after taking a butt whoopin at a mine pit from a guy using a chrome/blue one. But I did catch fish on nine different hand tied jigs that day!

 

[AtticaFish]

Some excellent info here... JiggerJohn, do me a favor and send me that clearer picture when you get a chance to take a new photo, i do want to post it here to show everyone.

I also will be trying to make some of those flies you linked to, that belly bead idea makes perfect sense and plan to work it in on some clouser's and buggers since i fish them (& lose them) alot in my local river. The river has alot of bedrock ledges where (i believe) the hook point does hang on so that may help alot. Thanks for the link.

 

[baitmaster]

Both under and over spinners have a place in the tackle box.
When fishing in shallows, over lilly pads, or over heavy weed beds, an over spinner will allow you to breech the surface of the water. This will create a disturbance that resembles baitfish boiling or an injured fish.
When fishing slow and on the bottom, an under spinner can have benifit too. The blade on the botton can stir up disturbance of soil, thump against other obsticales, and create vibration. All things that attract fish.
Both types have benifits that can be used in different situations. As always fish with what produces and with what you are most comfortable with, just my take on things.

 

[jiggerjohn]

Some excellent info here... JiggerJohn, do me a favor and send me that clearer picture when you get a chance to take a new photo, i do want to post it here to show everyone.

I also will be trying to make some of those flies you linked to, that belly bead idea makes perfect sense and plan to work it in on some clouser's and buggers since i fish them (& lose them) alot in my local river. The river has alot of bedrock ledges where (i believe) the hook point does hang on so that may help alot. Thanks for the link.

Attica, I just emailed the new photos -sorry about the delay! Also the Bouncer flies -really a jig form- are fun to tie and fish! I just got this note in from Steve,the originator of Bouncers - " I really don't know how many types of fish have been caught on proptails. In Alaska, I've caught 3 species of salmon, plus rainbow, cutthroat and steelhead trout, dolly varden char, sculpin and a halibut; in Ca, LMB, SMB and stripers; in saltwater, tarpon, snook, jack, ladyfish, snapper, dorado, roosterfish, barracuda and a triggerfish--and a few others. Maybe 22-25 species in all. Might try to add a shad this week." Check out the proptail section on his site and look at the neat pic of a barracuda with the proptail that took him!

 

[AtticaFish]

Here are the pics JiggerJohn sent me of his Boolie jigs, he sent full res. pics so was able to zoom in on one for some detail...

View attachment 5
View attachment 6

Also adding in some info he sent in emails...
"You'll see in a few of them that I've taken to tie a little loop of chartreuse chenille around the hook point to trap in the flashabou and keep it from flapping! The white models can be HOT in Lake Erie for the crappie & white bass, and the purple and black get large & smallmouths!"

 

[Ron Don]

Very neat jigs! I bet that adds a lot of action to the rabbit!

 

[jiggerjohn]

Very neat jigs! I bet that adds a lot of action to the rabbit!

Ron, that little propeller on such a light jig, with such thin rabbit strip (I often cut a standard 1/8" wide zonker strip in half -you lose a little hair,but that makes it even better action-wise!) gets the whole jig moving in a subtle shimmy or wobble. Of course this really sets the rabbit strip to waving in leech like fashion. And whenever I see the jig come back in at the end of a retreive and detect anything less than totally realistic action, I immediately clean out the trace of weed in the gap between spinner& head- because I KNOW it's fouled, to thwart the killer action &vibration!

 

[Ron Don]

Have you tried a plastic bead behind the prop? Might make it more nose heavy and be good for vertical jigging. Bet it would make less aggressive crappie bite.

Ive made baits with the propeller forward and done pretty well with them. But never put a prop behind a jighead. Thanks for posting!

I use to put hackle on these bug or beetle bodies. Caught all kinds of fish on them. Im excited about trying your design.

 

[jiggerjohn]

Have you tried a plastic bead behind the prop? Might make it more nose heavy and be good for vertical jigging. Bet it would make less aggressive crappie bite.

Ive made baits with the propeller forward and done pretty well with them. But never put a prop behind a jighead. Thanks for posting!

I use to put hackle on these bug or beetle bodies. Caught all kinds of fish on them. Im excited about trying your design.

Ron, Your jig looks pretty neat& I'll bet would be very functional with hackle!I used a "sorta" plastic bead for a while ,when I'd put the prop on and then dab the wraps with a drop of "gorilla glue" -it would cure into a hard plastic-like bead and seemed to function very well. But the little fly tying cone has proven best on the small boolies. My best head for a pure vertical dive (with prop twirling) was Hawnjigs 1/20 oz "tube jighead" -this long thin head would turn for a straight dive with any stoppage of retreive. But I'm really enjoying the lighter 1/24 oz roundhead these days with the smaller sharp hooks.